Should i support bhelen

Should I keep the anvil or destroy it? Should I help Branka or Caridin? Who is the best king for Orzammar? What happened to the Anvil of the Void?

Should I take Oghren to find Branka? Who should I side with in Orzammar? Can you do both Bhelen and Harrowmont quests? But truthfully it is up to you and your preference. User Info: leggykibeth. Harrowmont is the better guy, but Bhelen turns out to be a more efficient king although he does turn the place into an absolute monarchy instead of a constitutional one, or however you would describe the relationship between the Assembly and the king.

The thing that gets me is that there is no real indication in-game that Bhelen is a better ruler. A few people state concerns that he's wimpy, but unless you're meta-gaming and aware of the epilogue, Bhelen is just a scumbag. I tried to side with Bhelen once I threw up my hands at that point. But it is, on occasion, hilarious. User Info: gaskgkasghks. Vs a goody two shoes traditionalist who plunges Dwarven society into dark ages Play Rugby, Die Ugly.

Harrowmont gets my vote. It seems silly to me, at least from a role-playing position, to base a decision on the epilogue when your character shouldn't be aware of the outcomes.

If I'm playing a good guy, which I always do, then it seems quite odd and out of character to vote for Bhelen. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason. But without meta-gaming, you honestly can't expect your Warden to know that.

Given the information we have in Orzammar, there's no clear sign that Bhelen would be a better king, just a selfish, brutal tyrant. When you have the opportunity to give rights to an oppressed group of people who are denied all rights and are taught for centuries that they aren't even considered people, why not take advantage of it?

Obadiah wrote Bhelen is good for Dwarven society in the short term, if you were not one of the dwarves that supported Harrowmont's "coup" and were executed speak to the Harrowmont fighters after Bhelen's ascension , and you discount the bloodshed from the purges in the wake of his reforms.

And since the reforms are imposed with no lasting institutions, once Bhelen dies, nothing stops the reforms from being rolled back. SirOccam wrote And I wouldn't call Harrowmont compassionate. He seems a little more affable at first, but look at his attitudes towards the casteless. He reminds me of some members of my family who are both Christian and Republican.

Their disdain for the poor and uninsured is simply shocking, considering the tenets of their religion. In many ways, the point of the game is to force you to weigh how much you are willing to sacrifice for the 'greater good.

Harrowmont is merely a microcosm illustrating that philosophical debate. You cannot, in good conscience, argue that supporting Bhelen is without cost. How many had to die for him to achieve his goals? How many more would he sacrifice to ensure his authority was never questioned? There is no rule of law with Bhelen, only self preservation.

There is no moral center that dictates his choices, he seeks only to acquire and preserve his power. Handing over the keys to the kingdom to him terrifies me. These are very good points. Do the ends justify the means? One could draw a parallel between the treatment of casteless dwarves and circle mages and between Bhelen and Uldred minus his spectacular fail of becoming an abomination.

Hypothetically though, had Uldred been successful and the Circle gained its independence, would the people that support Bhelen also support him despite his and his followers use of blood magic and his willingness to side with Loghain at Ostagar to obtain his goals? Change is clearly necessary for both casteless and mages, but even if you are a consequentionalist personally I'd fear the risk that violently and underhandly forcing such radical change would ultimately result in retaliation and more negative consequences for society in the long run.

Nerevar-as wrote Really dumb with them heading to extinction. And he is pure dwarf there. At least Bhelen is a chance for change. Says a lot about dwarf culture what it takes for him to have a chance. Do you think had his brother PC had the chance to rule and do the same he would have had any other choice as well?

However, the Warden's decision at this point is pretty clear to me, no matter how you plan to play the game. Mages are very powerful and are clearly capable in most instances of living demon-free lives. So unless you plan on playing your character as a religious zealot, sparing the circle is both the smart and the right decision. Anyway, my initial point was that if you go through the game willing to sacrifice anything to maximize your chances of success versus the archdemon only to relent when Morrigan gives you the option to spare yourself, I don't know how you can't consider that an 'evil' playthrough.

Like I said, I never saw definitive evidence that Harrowmont has no regard for the casteless. For that matter, I never saw any evidence that Bhelen holds some huge respect for them.

As far as I can tell, he utilizes them to satisfy his own needs. Should his needs change to the point that casteless no longer serve a function for him does anyone really doubt that they would be back where they began or potentially even worse off? I had no interest in becoming a co-conspirator with a ruthless dictator who murders on a whim. Em 1,, 13 Nov 13 Nov 05 Dec Here's how you can get "Harrowmont's Ally" and "Bhelen's Ally" in one playthrough.

Note: I'm paranoid about closing storylines off too early, so I usually delay picking a side until the very last minute. So there might be a quicker way to do this, but this method definitely gives you a decision point where you'll only have to replay about two minutes of story in order to get both achievements.

I'll keep the description of what I did just for informative purposes -- but you can skip two paragraphs if you want to. I accepted the initial tasks from both houses, got both of Harrowmont's champions to fight again, and turned both of Harrowmont's allies into enemies for Bhelen.

At that point Harrowmont's emissary got mad but I agreed to play double agent for him, and cleaned out dust town. Now you should be in a position where you're still begrudgingly trusted by both factions, and they'll both try to get you to go find Branka in order to get her endorsement. You'll also be finding out that Bhelen's pretty much a tool, but that's beside the point.

Play through the entire Anvil of the Void storyline. Whether or not you choose Caradin or Branka, you'll be given the opportunity to have a crown made so that you can basically choose the next king. After you get the crown, SAVE the game.